POLL: What Are Your Thoughts on Occupy D.C.?

Alva Goldbook February 7, 2012 at 04:31 pm

Yes, supporting getting money out of politics is a left wing idea. Prosecuting Wall Street for the biggest white collar crime wave in world history is a left wing idea. Prosecuting banks for throwing people out of their homes when the bank has no proof that the house is their property is a left wing idea. Getting money out of politics is a left wing idea.
The simple reality here is that Washington is bought and paid for, and they make decisions for those who pay them. Last I checked that was a crime called BRIBERY. Citigroup even called the US political system, in their own view, a "plutonomy". Functionally speaking, we have ceased to be a democratic republic. Now, you tell me what the blue hell should be done to fix this? If you've got a better idea than to Occupy, then I'm all ears.

Mike February 7, 2012 at 05:55 pm

@Alva You did not differentiate what OWS once was, and what it has devolved into. All of those things you pointed out would make any reasonable person upset at banks and Washington. What it has devolved to is a movement where left-wing organizations are showing solidarity for, and trying to capitalize on. That is the difference that occurred over time.
I put my money where my mouth is by donating to and supporting organizations that have nothing to do with OWS.

Dave Phelps February 7, 2012 at 10:00 pm

five months living off the backs of DC taxpayers, trashing 2 beautiful parks, infesting them with rats, rapes, murders -- all sorts of wonderful things happened there. Looking for work? give me a break, the vast majority of this scum are left wing radicals and anarchists. If you know some who are employed, good for you, but I have my doubts. GROW UP, take a bath and get a job is the message they need to hear.

Dave Phelps February 7, 2012 at 10:19 pm

I am sure their parents are proud. Defecating in the street, beating up an old lady. Yeah, these people are really examples of the best of America. Best of the anarchists and bums that is. How would one of you liberals like to have these people living next door to you. HMMMM?

Alva Goldbook February 7, 2012 at 11:40 pm

Dave, you can throw childish insults at them all you like, but you didn't answer the question. Washington is bought and sold. Our representatives have ceased to be representative. How do you fix this?

Alva Goldbook February 7, 2012 at 11:43 pm

How does one measure what an incredibly diverse movement has devolved into to? One of the things OWS is doing is preventing people from being (illegally, mind you) evicted from their homes. Do you support banks using fraud to evict people from homes that they don't even own? If not, then what are YOU doing to prevent it? If you've got a better idea of how to address this than what OWS is doing, then I'm all ears.

Alva Goldbook February 7, 2012 at 11:49 pm

And how many years has CitiGroup, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo lived off of taxpayers? The criminals in these organizations have done more than "trash parks". They've trashed the world's entire economy. They've turn cities into ghost towns. They have cost America trillions. They bribe elected officials. They profit from war crimes. And you're calling the only group trying to address this problem "scum"? Your childish and hateful rhetoric speaks volumes about the kind of person you are.

Mike February 8, 2012 at 12:55 am

"Your childish and hateful rhetoric speaks volumes about the kind of person you are." Your ad hominem remarks at Dave Phelps and lack of specifics in what you state emphasize the weak stance and message of OWS. A movement in which you state certain things, but the reality of the countless youtube videos and pictures I see of defecating in the street, etc. far outweighs what you state OWS to be.

Alva Goldbook February 8, 2012 at 07:58 am

Mike, are you really going to insinuate that the purpose behind OWS is dropping a load in the street? By the way, you do know that defecation is bio-degradable, don't you? :) It seems to me that since you have such strong feelings about waste products from biological organisms, that you'd be out in North Carolina or Tennessee protesting pig farms. You see, pigs defecate at about 4 times the rate of humans, and there are farms in NC with 2 million pigs on them. Think the total waste production equal to NYC without the sewers. These corporate farms deal with the waste by putting it in giant vats. Aren't free markets fun? The smell can be detected from miles around in the summer heat. By the way, these vats aren't all that secure either. They have sprung massive leaks, large enough to knock over entire churches and flood whole towns.

Ann H Csonka February 8, 2012 at 08:45 am

Did u notice that these sites are on Federal land, operated by the Natl Park Service? (first line of article) Therefore, ALL U.S. taxpayers share in the cost of cleaning up. OWS should be more careful and clean, pack out what they bring in, etc. They were better at first, but they still are doing a service to our nation by spending their time on behalf of all of us to re-orient our "Wall St -centered economy" toward invigorating all the Main Streets.
t

Dave Phelps February 8, 2012 at 04:13 pm

Alva, that we have crooks in NYC -- and I would add in DC, think Solindra -- is not a surprise. How do we fix this? I know, lets camp in parks, rape women, defecate in the street, beat up old women, live like pigs so that rats infest our camp site. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Dave Phelps February 8, 2012 at 04:22 pm

cute Alva, but the similarity of the pigs in NC and in OWS is apt. As I said, it seems to me that if these human waste -- pun intended -- wanted to accomplish something, living in tents for 5 months, defecating in public, assaulting an old lady, rape, etc would not be the way to do it. But then, they are left wing radicals and anarchists -- who apparently believe that toilets are a capitalist scheme to control the world too = made by profit seeking corporations. Gasp, the horrors!!!!!

patchfan February 8, 2012 at 04:34 pm

My answer - one that you left off of the survey
Yes - They are breaking the law.

Dave Phelps February 8, 2012 at 07:19 pm

Sorry Ann, the DC police and others are involved in "policing" the two sites, racking up OT and taking police protection away from other parts of the city, where, no surprise, crime has increased during the OWS. And they are doing nothing on anyone's behalf, other than their own self-centered egotistic aggrandizement. They could invigorate Main Street by, gasp, getting a job, supporting themselves and their families. Anarchists who believe that the world owes them something for nothing. They are no better than the crooks who messed things up on Wall Street or in the Congress. One of their early demands - when you believed they were good -- was that everyone should get a minimum pay of $20 per hour, whether they had a job or not. Yeah, great idea!!!

Alva Goldbook February 8, 2012 at 09:27 pm

Dave, again, you fail to answer the question. How do you solve this problem? You got a better idea, I'm all ears.

Alva Goldbook February 8, 2012 at 09:36 pm

Dave, you again fail to address the central issue. How do you solve the problem of getting money out of politics? Unless, of course, you have no problem with a business-run coup d'état. If that's the case, I guess I couldn't blame you for ignoring the issue. So, how much is the Boehner paying you to say this stuff?
http://upwithchrishayes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/19/8896362-exclusive-lobbying-firms-memo-spells-out-plan-to-undermine-occupy-wall-street-video

Dave Phelps February 8, 2012 at 10:54 pm

Alva, as stated, not by OWS. Money has always been in politics. Unions, Soros and the Hollywood liberal elite, on the left. some corporations on the right, some on the left too -- GE, Solindra, etc. Look at ancient Rome, when the top job, Consul, was often bought. Money and politics, always together. You think defecating in public, rape, rats and beating up old ladies is the solution? Communism was more corrupt than any system, anarchism is even worse, bombs and mayhem. Sorry, thems the facts. The solution? Elect the right people.

Alva Goldbook February 9, 2012 at 06:58 am

Dave, there is a difference between money having some influence on politics, and living in a nation where our republic has been overthrown with a plutocracy. Regardless of how you feel about it, when polled, 81% of the People (who are supposed to be running this little shindig) want to raise taxes on the wealthy. What happens? They get tax cuts. This is more than GE and Solindra. It's every sector of our politics. On the federal, state, and local levels. It's the declaration that "money is speech", meaning of course that unequal equality means unequal rights of speech. It means that a single billionaire can determine that Newt Gingrich is a candidate, instead of the voters. it's said that "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Elect the right people? You mean we should choose the right fox to guard the henhouse. This isn't a hard problem to solve. Bribery used to be a crime that was prosecuted. When our representatives have ceased to be representative, then something more than elections are required to fix the problem. Occupation is one proposed model to address this issue. If you've got a better one, I'm all ears.

Fairfax Resident February 9, 2012 at 03:54 pm

Alva - it is obvious that you support these folks - and perhaps some percentage of them are law abiding tax payers but that does not get away from the fact that they are costing the City and the rest ALL tax payers a lot of extra money. If you think for one minute that they are making an impression on Wall Street or the banks you are dead wrong. They are hurting ME personally as a business owner. They are hurting the City, Park Police and residents of D.C. by cutting into the time they can spend solving crimes and reducing crime in the neighborhoods that most need it. They are hurting the small businesses around their encampments by scaring away tourists, local customers and businessmen/women in the area who won't go near there. They are throwing themselves in front of cars, hitting police in the face with bricks, beating up private citizens, defecating in the parks and urinating in mason jars. Their waste feeds into our local streams and tributaries. It is all a part of the Chesapeake Bay water shed and human waste contaminates the soil. Not to mention the ever growing rat population because rats feed of waste - human, dog, etc... they find it to be a delicacy. There are other ways to hit the banks and Wall Street. Grassroots approaches such as joining local credit unions or small banks, only shopping in mom & pop stores, etc... OWS has become a joke and they are not the respected and upstanding human beings you tout them as being.

Alva Goldbook February 9, 2012 at 04:47 pm

FR, some percentage? You mean that they're all criminals sans a small minority of them? I guarantee you, what they're costing the city & tax payers is a itty bitty drop in the bucket what Wall Street's criminal behavior cost the tax payers & the economy in general. They are having an effect, as it certainly has waken up some Democrats that the class warfare being waged by the 1% against everyone else needs to be addressed. I could care less that they're hurting you as a business owner. When business owners stop hurting workers, then I'd give your complaint a moment of consideration. They're hitting the police in the face with bricks? Oh, the poor defenseless police! The truth is that it was a water bottle, and it flew out of someone's hand after 3 cops tackled the guy. Beating up private citizens? You're living in a fantasy world. The Move Your Money campaign came from OWS, it's just another part of the movement. The PURPOSE of occupation is to disrupt business-as-usual. That is what it is all about. It would end tomorrow if business would just stop their criminal behavior of bribing the People's representatives. Until then, I certainly don't see business owners doing jack about preventing banks from illegally evicting people from homes the banks don't even own. OWS, on the other hand, is doing exactly that.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/02/01/416772/occupy-detroit-foreclosure/ http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/06/real_estate/occupy_movement_spreads/index.htm

Mike February 9, 2012 at 09:46 pm

Alva. So you support this treatment of small business owners as well? Kind of ironic, how OWS claims to be the champion of the 99%, but in we have these results…
SoCal Street Cart Vendors Hurting After ‘Occupy’ Group Splatters Blood, Urine http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/11/07/socal-street-cart-vendors-hurting-after-occupy-group-splatters-blood-urine Occupiers terrorize us: eatery http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/occupiers_terrorize_us_eatery_o4dKzxi3n03WyJWAJu4AhO Small-business owners tell Occupy Wall Street: You're hurting the 99 percent. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/1110/Small-business-owners-tell-Occupy-Wall-Street-You-re-hurting-the-99-percent In actuality, here IS what OWS is doing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuFQuEwJ5xI&feature=player_embedded#! And this is the result of these occupied parks and protests… Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters accused of living in filth as shocking pictures show one demonstrator defecating on a POLICE CAR http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046586/Occupy-Wall-Street-Shocking-photos-protester-defecating-POLICE-CAR.html You can say all you want, but you cannot change the fact that these events have occurred. Period.

Alva Goldbook February 10, 2012 at 12:13 am

Mike, let me ask this directly. Which is worse: leaving trash in a park, or destroying 20% of the net worth of the United States? Again, the point of occupying is to disrupt business-as-usual. Perhaps small businesses should do more to rein in big business that harms them at a far greater degree than these protests could ever hope to.
Your link from that conservative British tabloid, the Daily Mail, is interesting. Apparently, "defecating on a police car" is putting your ass on a police car. The "mounds of trash" look like camping supplies to me.

Alva Goldbook February 10, 2012 at 12:24 am

Fred, sadly, that's just not workable. Our representative government has been hijacked and overthrown by a Wall Street plutocracy. If it was possible to solve this problem by working within the system, this would have been fixed already. Our government has become reform-proof. The only way anything is ever going to change is if the 99% wages a war against the 1% the same way the 1% has been waging a war against them. If the 99% doesn't do something to defend themselves, then this entire nation is going one day look like Haiti, and there will be no middle class left.

Alva Goldbook February 10, 2012 at 12:25 am

What's wrong with anarchists?

Dave Phelps February 10, 2012 at 04:04 pm

Drink the koolaid Alva. It is clearly a waste of time to try to reason with someone who is incapable of, well, reason. Bye.

Alva Goldbook February 10, 2012 at 06:34 pm

Taking your ball and going home so soon, Dave? I guess a reasoned point-by-point defense of OWS isn't what your employer had in mind, eh?

Mike February 10, 2012 at 06:55 pm

No Alva, troll feeding gets boring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

Alva Goldbook February 10, 2012 at 07:39 pm

Ah, so "Mike" and "Dave Phelps" is the same person? What were you saying about "trolls"?

Dave Phelps February 10, 2012 at 08:51 pm

No. we are not the same person. But I have to say that I tire of trying to put some sense into such a koolaid laden person.
I suggest that you go and live with the animals on OWS and see how you like it. For the betterment of man. I only pray, and I do, that you are not one of those animals victims. I have a job and need to get back to work. The more I do this, the longer I have to stay at the office.

Bob Bruhns February 10, 2012 at 10:41 pm

I think OWS would make more of an impact if they polled America online, using Numbers USA or something. That said, I agree that Big-Bucks strutting Wall Street peacocks seem to be breaking the economy, thanks to careless deregulation and outright non-enforcement. The US Government does not exist to prop up companies that overcompensate their executives and operate with the EXPECTATION that the government will rescue them if the big-shot games of their egomaniacal top-director types happen to crash their businesses. Banks and investment houses are supposed to be anchors of financial strength, not bungling comedy theaters with revolving doors into and out of top governmental positions. And government is supposed to represent the People, not rob them blind.